Valery Semenenko is a long-time supporter of Ukrainian culture in Russia, a well-known figure of the Ukrainian diaspora in Moscow. He was co-chairman of the Union of Ukrainians in Russia (2005-2012) and a member of the board of directors of the World Congress of Ukrainians (until 2021).
The 84-year-old man was forced to leave Russia for Armenia during the full-scale war to escape persecution. This is already his second emigration.
In an exclusive interview with Radio Liberty, Valery Semenenko spoke about how a full-scale Russian-Ukrainian war began for him, whether Ukrainians in Russia could do anything to stop Putin, and about his hopes for Ukraine’s victory.
– More than twenty years of life on the territory of Russia have been dedicated to the Ukrainian idea. Radio Liberty has repeatedly reported on your activities and persecution, in particular, the situation with the closure of the Ukrainian library in Moscow. And – departure?
– Yes, I started my business in 1989. Then in Moscow we created the Association of Ukrainians of Moscow, I was the head of the association. Then we had to re-register the organization – and we were not allowed to be called “Union of Ukrainians of Moscow”. We created the “Organization of Ukrainians in Moscow” to preserve the acronym. I was the chairman until 2005, when at the Congress of Ukrainians in Russia I was elected co-chairman of the Association of Ukrainians in Russia. He was in this position until 2012, until the Supreme Court closed the association. In 2015, I left Russia, lived abroad for about two years…
– That is, this is not your first trip?
A lot of cars drove by, a lot of police. And they began to throw people into autobags
– Yes, this is the second departure, the second emigration.
– Tell us how the full-scale invasion of Russia into Ukraine began for you, where were you, how did you find out?
– I was in Moscow. How this news hit me on the head – a full-scale war. I immediately got into the car, drove to the subway and went to the center. People began to gather there for an anti-war rally. A few thousand. It was just in the very center, near the monument to Pushkin. But there were also a lot of cars, a lot of police. And they began to throw people into autobags.
– Were they only Ukrainians?
– No, Ukrainians were actually a minority. Even I didn’t dare to raise the Ukrainian flag there, otherwise I would have been thrown into a car park right away. No, no, they were far from Ukrainians. They were Muscovites, Russians who did not accept this war.
There were probably more police than us. The participants were not occupied, but stood almost close to us
People shouted slogans: “No war!”. Right away, the “riot police” swooped in and grabbed – mostly young people. They didn’t touch me because I’m older, so to speak. They arranged such a “press”: the soldiers walked shoulder to shoulder and squeezed everyone out of the passage. I nevertheless broke through this “piston”, inspected the square… It lasted for several hours. The cleaning was major, but I went home safe and sound.
– How did events develop further?
– On March 9, we traditionally go to the monument to Shevchenko. What to do? Still, I called many people, I said: “I’m going!”. They came, not many – but they came. There were probably more police than us. The participants were not occupied, but stood almost close to us. And I turned on the main radio, just then the “only marathon” in Ukraine started working. I was forced to turn it off. We laid flowers, took a photo, stood and left. It was already purely Ukrainians, it was a diaspora.
And somewhere at the end of March, I began to think: what to do? On the third day after the start of the war, my daughter and her family left for Armenia because she was afraid of reprisals. My daughter volunteered there. And it was she who made me think. He says: “Daddy, can you organize people to transport those fleeing from the war zone, from the temporarily occupied territories?”. We are talking about people who would like to go abroad through Russia. And then a whole volunteer movement “Let us leave” was formed.
– And you joined him?
We actively transported people fleeing the war: from Kharkiv Oblast, Luhansk Oblast, Rubizhny, Mariupol
– I organized a group of people from among my Ukrainians who had driver’s licenses, and I said: “Let’s export and deliver to the Baltic countries.” The first flight, such an unfamiliar affair, we took it together with a friend. We went to Voronezh, there was a whole family from Kharkov – they ran away, their daughter was killed. They took this family. We drove through Moscow-Voronezh, then from Voronezh through Mordovia, through Nizhny Novgorod, where people were also taken away, and just to the Baltic. Ivan-horod They didn’t let us go any further for three kilometers, so all our people went on by mashrutka. And they got out. They still write to me.
This is how our group appeared. There were fifteen of us drivers. The daughter organized a fundraiser. They gave us money to rent cars and gasoline, that’s all. So we traveled – for free. For half a year, or even more, we have been actively transporting people fleeing the war: from Kharkiv Oblast, Luhansk Oblast, Rubizhny, and Mariupol.
I remember that three women left. One is 85 years old, her daughter is 64 years old, her granddaughter is in her forties. And she was carrying, holding a Siamese cat in her bosom. Three women and a cat. They fled from Mariupol, were filtered, went through several camps, and ended up in Ryazan.
– What stopped your volunteer work?
– Our work was interrupted when mobilization was announced. I’m calling: Andriy, I need to go to Belgorod.” And he: “I’m in Romania.” When the mobilization was announced. Some of the drivers ran away.
He was given seven and a half years. And he sang “Red viburnum”
Then, after the defeat of the Russian opposition, Mykhailo Kriger joined us. This is our countryman, from the Dnipro. Started taking people out, made several flights, was very pleased with it. “Thank God, at least I’m doing something.” A very patriotic person. But back in 2020, someone wrote something about Putin, and he wrote something about Putin on Facebook, on his page – something like “I support hanging him” and all that. This post was later blamed on him. He was caught in November 2022, on the street, he was in his car. Arrested. Then there were courts, we went to them. He was tried for his previous publications, not for his participation in our volunteer movement.
– Did he sing “Red viburnum” at the court?
– Yes, he is. He was given seven and a half years. Before announcing the verdict – the last word. And he says: “I will say in Ukrainian – to my countrymen. I am with you.” And he sang “Red viburnum”.
It was in the spring of 2023. We drove less, but we still drove. And more – they took people into their home, in Moscow. The refugees had to stay somewhere.
I remembered the moment. Katya, the girl, had to be taken away. I call: “Where are you, what are you?”. “I’m near the subway.” When I arrive, I see a huge suitcase and a huge shepherd dog with it. Picked it up, took it away, and then – by car to the Baltic States. There is also a grandfather, 93 years old, from Rubizhny… I gave small interviews to all of them, there are records.
– And you yourself – how are you during this period?
They turned everything over for a long time, several hours. Shevchenko’s portrait was not taken. They were looking for bombs, weapons
– August 2, 2023, six in the morning. There is a knock on my window. I open the door – two ambala-policemen with assault rifles and four in civilian clothes, clearly “FSB officers” and three or four more in civilian clothes. One against me. “We came to talk to you.” At six in the morning! They presented me with the resolution of the Moscow City Court on “inspection of the premises”.
They turned everything over for a long time, several hours. Then they went to my garage – they looked there. They took two computers, two smartphones from me, and found a Ukrainian flag that the embassy gave me for my anniversary. The flag was taken away.
– What did you suspect?
– “In order to fight extremism – check” – was written in the resolution. One of them comes out, I remember his idiotic smile, brings out a portrait of Shevchenko: “I found it!”. My mother used to say in such cases: “Old men, old men, where are your bags?”… I say: “Well, take them as a souvenir.” They did not take Shevchenko’s portrait. They were looking for bombs, weapons – of course, I didn’t have anything like that.
I don’t live in a high-rise, but in a private house on the outskirts of Moscow, a cottage village. Everyone has seen it, everyone knows it. Of course, the vast majority of people, Russians, considered me an enemy. In fact, they don’t care, but “Putin is right.”
– Why – for the enemy? You can speak Russian.
– Because everyone knew that I was for Ukraine.
– When did you decide to leave?
We were completely under the hood. They listened to me, followed me
– I became very uncomfortable somewhere at the end of October – beginning of November. My wife went to Yerevan, to my daughter, and I was left alone. At the end of November 2023, I also flew there.
– It was scary in Russia, were you being watched?
– Wrong word. We were completely under the hood. They listened to me, followed me.
– Looking back, what is the conclusion – why did ethnic Ukrainians in Russia not massively support Ukraine? Why did not go to mass actions?
– Stay there and you’ll understand why. In Russia, any speeches or protests are absolutely impossible. Now, for example, my like-minded people who worked with me in a volunteer organization began to be harassed, called for questioning, asked about our activities, psychologically pressured.
Early visits. Well, the way they came to me. I am alone at home. Why those ambals, two cars, the police? They brought the “obschestvennost”, as they called it – the experts. I have one.
– How is the performance?
People are completely inert. Because the refrigerator won
– Yes, like a play. It was clear psychological pressure.
– Tell me, what is the motivation of a Ukrainian who lives in Russia and does not support Ukraine?
– It all depends on the quantity. Not so many went out into the streets… If half a million gathered and came out, as we gathered in the late 80s and shouted: “Yeltsin, Yeltsin” or something else, then it wouldn’t be scary anymore. There were not many here. People are completely inert. Since the refrigerator won, they don’t really like the idea…
– Are they Ukrainians?
– I will tell you that among Ukrainians there are many who, as they say, are “lower” than Russians. “Putinists”. Against Ukraine’s independent policy, against its desire to go to Europe. On the contrary, “let Ukraine be with Russia.”
And, of course, there are many who did not accept the war, but, unfortunately, cannot express their protest.
What was our protest? We drove people. I knew that we were being watched, that we were under a cap, I warned everyone: “Don’t write about the war, don’t write about the army, we are just transporting refugees. All. What will be presented to us?”.
– What other forms of resistance could there be?
– Also – accept refugees from Ukraine, help them – with money, whatever. And more – none. Write? If you post a lot somewhere in social networks – that’s all, arrest.
– Leaving is also a form of resistance? There are such statistics – how many Ukrainians left Russia?
All Ukrainians who would like to leave Russia should be accepted
– Yes, this is also a form of resistance, I think. Hundreds of people left. This is not much. Understand where they will leave? For example, there are many Ukrainians who would like to leave Russia. Europe will not accept them, neither will Ukraine, because they do not have documents, residence permits, they are all citizens of Russia.
How to separate the grain from the chaff? In my opinion, all Ukrainians who would like to leave Russia should be accepted. Are there spies among them? Spies are looking for other ways.
– How many people, Ukrainians, were arrested for their position during the war in Russia?
– There are no such statistics. I think not much. How intimidated the people are… We actually returned to Stalin’s times. Fear…
And there is special pressure on Ukrainian organizations. Tyumen, they wanted to gather for the 25th anniversary of the association – they forbade it. Next – in Khabarovsk, the “Green Wedge” organization. They called the head – “remove “Green Wedge” from the name.” A strong organization in St. Petersburg is about to close… Many Ukrainian organizations have been liquidated: Irkutsk, Omsk, Yaroslavl… Under official pretexts, tax and so on.
– And what happens to people from such organizations?
– They disperse, remain silent… All ethnic Ukrainians are now under suspicion.
Another problem is that some Ukrainians do not identify themselves as Ukrainians. They do not speak Ukrainian.
– What do you think about the end of Russia’s war against Ukraine?
– I think that the war will not end, it will only die down, but there will be no truce. There simply won’t be any strength to go further against each other – neither in Ukraine, nor in Russia. Resources will run out. So, we will wait for some fateful breakthrough. Maybe Putin will give his soul to God. And secondly, a lot will depend on the support of the allies, on the West.
And for us at this time – who knows what: to fight, to inform, to help.
